Inheritance tax

thumbelina · Post by **thumbelina** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 15:15

So you are of the opinion that an inheritance of 150 000 euros is a large inheritance and that tax should be paid thereafter, Roger?

john · Post by **john** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 15:48

Yes,I'm with Thumbers on this one. I do not know,not for the first time,what Rog is on about.

Of course if we are talking ready cash then 150k is a substantial sum of money,but in the case of an Estate (which,it seems to me, then it is what the nub of this thread is about) then it is pretty small fry. There are not many houses alone worth less than that these days,Roger.

Where SMIC comes into it is anyone's guess.

opas · Post by **opas** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 16:04

Silly me! I thought from the subject tittle it was about visting a vet

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 16:09

opas wrote:Silly me! I thought from the subject tittle it was about visting a vet

Oy!

Stop diverting the thread .................

john · Post by **john** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 16:14

opas wrote:Silly me! I thought from the subject tittle it was about visting a vet

Fair point opas.......

Roger O · Post by **Roger O** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 16:35

Why does an "estate" include a paid dwelling? Many rent all their lives and never possess a dwelling. 150,000 in the bank as an inheritance is more than a large percentage of the population will ever have.

thumbelina · Post by **thumbelina** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 16:46

Roger O wrote:Why does an "estate" include a paid dwelling? Many rent all their lives and never possess a dwelling. 150,000 in the bank as an inheritance is more than a large percentage of the population will ever have.

On what planet???? Or in which century??????????

john · Post by **john** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 17:12

Roger O wrote:Why does an "estate" include a paid dwelling? Many rent all their lives and never possess a dwelling. .

Don't ask me Roger. I don't make the rules. But one's house is the biggest single asset that most folk have,so I suppose it's an easy target for taxers.

So,unfortunately you are completely wrong in your comments. The fact is,the vast majority of Estates in Western countries are worth more than 150k. OK, there will be some who haven't,but the "seven year rule" (in the case of the UK) means that it's practically impossible to divest yourself of all your assets prior to death,for most. And those who CAN afford to do it will certainly be in the "over 150k "category.

PS...loooks like opas has "had a word" with those in charge,as the title of the thread has magically changed from Vets to Inheritance tax!

opas · Post by **opas** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 18:03

john wrote:
Roger O wrote:Why does an "estate" include a paid dwelling? Many rent all their lives and never possess a dwelling. .

PS...loooks like opas has "had a word" with those in charge,as the title of the thread has magically changed from Vets to Inheritance tax!

Not guilty ! I have not had a word with anyone, someone has obviously seen sense .

Jesal · Post by **Jesal** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 18:10

Sorry! I should have said something.

It was me! I thought opas had a good point and the thread should be split.

opas · Post by **opas** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 18:25

So where is the Vet question? and any usefull answers to it.

Jesal · Post by **Jesal** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 18:29

Where it always was - in the General stuff about living in/visiting the PO section

http://forum.anglophone-direct.com/ftopic7696.php

mpprh · Post by **mpprh** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 19:02

I don't have stats to hand, but I feel that we are over estimating the French wealth. More than 50% rent. A large proportion are paid SMIC. Many renters get rent support or live in HLM's. I'm not sure that a high proportion of French people die with assets over €150,000. I'll do some research.

Perhaps we are judging this with the luxury of rose tinted spectacles peering over the pool of our 2nd (or 2+) home ?

Peter

thumbelina · Post by **thumbelina** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 19:16

Who's talking about just France?

Perhaps we are judging this with the luxury of rose tinted spectacles peering over the pool of our 2nd (or 2+) home ?

And don't judge everyone by your own standards, Peter!

john · Post by **john** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 19:39

john wrote: So,unfortunately you are completely wrong in your comments. The fact is,the vast majority of Estates in Western countries are worth more than 150k.

Quite so,Thumbs. Peter obviously did not read my posting carefully enough.

Roger O · Post by **Roger O** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 20:21

mpprh wrote:I don't have stats to hand, but I feel that we are over estimating the French wealth. More than 50% rent. A large proportion are paid SMIC. Many renters get rent support or live in HLM's. I'm not sure that a high proportion of French people die with assets over €150,000. I'll do some research.Peter

Thanks, Peter. I am talking solely about France here.
As my sister is 12 years younger than I, there is hardly any expection of inheritance coming my way from the UK

The fact that most on this forum either have second homes or could afford to buy and retire here obviously colours the main way of thinking.

Personally, if I hadn't worked 24 years in Switzerland earning high enough (but NOT "luxury" from a Swiss viewpoint!) salaries to amass a company pension into an amount allowing me to buy a place here for cash (but forfeiting the monthly retirement pension itself as a consequence), I couldn't have done it.

Thankfully, my 3 Govt. pensions from the UK, Switzerland and France, plus the French Cadre pension, still allow us to live relatively comfortably. Annaïck's job at hotel de la Cité helps pay for the occasional small luxuries.

PS Having spent more than 2 hours today phoning backwards and forwards with a London branch of HSBC concerning an error in my daughter's new account there - coming up against a wall of polite refusals to impart nonspecific information due to paranoic security concerns, plus the fact that it takes 3 working days for her to effect a money transfer from her own account in Carcassonne (or ours in CCM) due to idiotic "security clearance issues" (maybe they think 400 euros is for buying a weapon??), I am overjoyed to work with French and Swiss bankers who deal in time and efficiency!!!

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 21:27

Roger O wrote: PS Having spent more than 2 hours today phoning backwards and forwards with a London branch of HSBC concerning an error in my daughter's new account there - coming up against a wall of polite refusals to impart nonspecific information due to paranoic security concerns, plus the fact that it takes 3 working days for her to effect a money transfer from her own account in Carcassonne (or ours in CCM) due to idiotic "security clearance issues" (maybe they think 400 euros is for buying a weapon??), I am overjoyed to work with French and Swiss bankers who deal in time and efficiency!!!

So you don't know the British banking system Rog and it's their fault!

Transferring funds from one of your accounts to another in the same bank is immediate (as it is in France) transferring funds into someone else's account or from different banks takes 3 days (as it is in France).

If you wanted immediate transfer then you pay £25 use the CHAPS system and it takes less than an hour ..............

mpprh · Post by **mpprh** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 21:27

Found some stats here :

http://insee.fr/fr/publications-et-serv ... cf0906.pdf
For people over 18, 30% of those in employment, 40% of the unemployed and 20% of those classified as "other inactive" rely on the state for housing.

http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.a ... ATTEF04112
Analysis of minimum wager by sector

http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.a ... ATTEF04620
Social contributions

http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.a ... MRSEF04124
Average salaries

http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/info-rapi ... e=20100304
Despite adult training schemes and various other ploys, unemployment in Q4 2009 was 24% of those under 25 and 6.7% of those over 50.

Still haven't found the stats for average inheritance, but judging by the above it will be low.

Peter

mpprh · Post by **mpprh** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 21:34

Roger O wrote: The fact that most on this forum either have second homes or could afford to buy and retire here obviously colours the main way of thinking.

Personally, if I hadn't worked 24 years in Switzerland earning high enough (but NOT "luxury" from a Swiss viewpoint!) salaries to amass a company pension into an amount allowing me to buy a place here for cash (but forfeiting the monthly retirement pension itself as a consequence), I couldn't have done it.

That was the point I was trying to make. If I had worked solely in France or UK and raised a family, it is unlikely I could have the lifestyle I now have. I have been fortunate to have worked in high paid jobs overseas, been able to take advantage of tax advantages, and made some (fortunately) lucrative investments.

The concept of viagere reveals an interesting economic scenario ?

Peter

john · Post by **john** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 22:22

Not sure what this barrage of salary /employment stats is supposed to prove Peter.

The thread is about Inheritance/ Estates. Many people have large reserves of unearned income AND wealth. In the form of property,investments etc. In many countries this is handed down through generations. So income from employment is of tiny significance.

That's why Estates are often very substantial.

Roger O · Post by **Roger O** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 22:33

Serge wrote:
Roger O wrote:So you don't know the British banking system Rog and it's their fault!

Transferring funds from one of your accounts to another in the same bank is immediate (as it is in France) transferring funds into someone else's account or from different banks takes 3 days (as it is in France).

If you wanted immediate transfer then you pay £25 use the CHAPS system and it takes less than an hour ..............
Serge, dear, I transferred the opening funds from our CCM account in Perpignan in the afternoon and her account in HSBC Carcassonne was credited the following morning - maybe you use the wrong banks? Same with France-Belgium (Ebay sales confirmed receipt by the seller). Same with France-Switzerland to Tanya's account for ticket payments for an old buddy who got me discounts last year...

When I bought our house in Le Soler, UBS/Zürich transferred the cash directly to CCM Perpignan and our dear lady conseillère issued a banker's draft to the notaire the next day! We are living in the 21st century!

By the way, today's farce was dragging the information out of HSBC in London that the missing £54 from her account was 2 debits by Oyster card net sales for an internet transaction of £27 which failed twice at her end due to some "security issue" - so she finally went to buy cash at the underground oyster input. The two amounts of £27 from the "failed" transactions were, however, not credited to her oster card. HSBC still shows her account with the debited £54 not yet transacted, though the bank finally told me the debits were "in the pipeline" during 2 days but they already knew about them - which was why my daughter was totally confused. I guess the credits on her oyster card will turn up in 3 days too?
What a cockeyed systm!!

By the way, not one of the people I talked to in HSBC was English, 3 Indians (of which one had such a thick accent that even I hardly understood him) and one Chinese. All very polite and irreproachable in their approach to the customer - but full of "I'm sorry, but this information is available only to the account holder" type statements - even though they have my ID as guarantor with all my details.
I guess this attitude could be called "super-polite-back-covering"....

thumbelina · Post by **thumbelina** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 22:41

The fact that most on this forum either have second homes or could afford to buy and retire here obviously colours the main way of thinking.

And the fact that SOME of us on here decided to move here to give our children a better childhood and education and ourselves a better way of life, and break our arses every day to earn enough money to survive, means that SOME of us on here have far more idea of what they are talking about than others who are out of date, out of touch with reality or just bloody senile!!!!!

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 23:24

Rog. please don't refer to me as 'Dear' on an open forum - I'm sure your wife will be back before long ...............

mrob343 · Post by **mrob343** » Mon 15 Mar 2010 23:28

thumbelina wrote:
The fact that most on this forum either have second homes or could afford to buy and retire here obviously colours the main way of thinking.
And the fact that SOME of us on here decided to move here to give our children a better childhood and education and ourselves a better way of life, and break our arses every day to earn enough money to survive, means that SOME of us on here have far more idea of what they are talking about than others who are out of date, out of touch with reality or just bloody senile!!!!!

Well said Thumbs !!

Personally i prefer to rent, it's easier all round,no need to worry about the children or who gets their slice of the pie!

But if you have kids, you benefit ?!!

Santiago · Post by **Santiago** » Tue 16 Mar 2010 11:33

I actually like the French inheritance laws. They are designed to avoid the evil-stepmother situation.

It's all very well saying you should be entitled to will your estate to whoever you please but......

What if you inherited a large amount of that yourself? That's not very fair.
The law came in when the majority of wealth passed by inheritance was family wealth, not lifetimes earnings. Times have changed and many people can now earn much more than they inherit but I still like the idea that children should benefit and not be held to ransom by manipulative, senile or impetuous parents.

thumbelina · Post by **thumbelina** » Tue 16 Mar 2010 12:03

I agree, up to a point, but unfortunately life is more complicated than that, Santiago.

One size fits all doesn't work nowadays.

Imagine your son is in prison for paedophilia or rape or murder.

Would you STILL want him to inherit an equal share of your hard earned wordly goods that your hard working honest daughter will inherit???

How can it be right that that little old lady that Mand knows, can be kicked out of her marital home because her son is a waster?

I can, however, see the logic that parents shouldn't be able to disinherit their children entirely.

And I prefer NOT to rent, Rob. I'm using my money to pay a mortgage for someone else; their kids will then inherit a nice home and my daughter will just get any money I happen to have left over.

At least by owning my home, I'm able to leave my daughter something to make her life easier after I'm no longer here.

john · Post by **john** » Tue 16 Mar 2010 12:08

I suppose it depends on what your view of government,and what it's for,is,Jon.

Personally,as I've mentioned on other threads, I've come to detest over-government as time's gone on. It's not for anyone(least of all Government ) to tell me what to do with my money,irrespective of how it was gained,whether I'm alive or dead. I'm afraid I cannot see the relevance of your point re whether you inherited assets,earned them,or whatever. So long as they were acquired legally,I 'm at a loss to see why that should make any difference.

In the end,All governments everywhere have a voracious appetite for our cash,and will continue to utilise methods of relieving us of it through taxation ,not necessarily through the fairest or most efficient method,but through the easiest targets. I'm realistic enough to recognise that,but thereafter,when they've had their slice ,it is not up to them to dictate to me what I do with the rest.

Santiago · Post by **Santiago** » Tue 16 Mar 2010 17:59

We have to accept that one of the roles of government is to take taxes from people and use that for the public good. In a democracy if we don't like the way they are doing it, we can vote for an alternative that we prefer.

The idea that all our money - earned, inherited or won - should be ours to do with as we please is a pretty selfish view (I don't mean to call you selfish, John). Especially if we have grown up and lived in a country which has given us good health, protection, education and a stable economy which has allowed our house price to increase.

I guess what I'm saying is that I like the idea of wealth as being something which we have temporarily. Similar to the idea that we don't inherit the Earth, we are just looking after if for the next generation.

thumbelina · Post by **thumbelina** » Tue 16 Mar 2010 18:03

Sorry, Santiago, but here you and I differ!

My father started with nothing. He built up a very successful business. He paid income tax at 40%. He paid all of the taxes that went along with having a profitable business.

When we sold the business he paid Capital Gains Tax.

He pays tax on his savings that he earned from selling his business.

When he dies, 40% of what is left will go back to the Government!

That is taking the PISS!!!!!!!!!!

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Tue 16 Mar 2010 18:06

Santiago wrote: I guess what I'm saying is that I like the idea of wealth as being something which we have temporarily. Similar to the idea that we don't inherit the Earth, we are just looking after if for the next generation.

You in training to become a vicar when you have done with the wine thing Jon?

Connect with your social network account

Inheritance tax