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TOM AND BARB
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plumber help

Post by TOM AND BARB »

Hi,

Have put this in the money section as it applies to my recent water bill.

In the last 6 months I developed a leak on my side of the meter that I have only become aware of when my bill arrived followed immediately by a letter from the water suppliers telling me my usage was abnormally high compared with previous bills. ( 103 cubic meters as opposed to 20 cubic meters)

I immediately identified a leaking supply pipe which was a relatively easy fix.I replaced the whole section of plastic pipe from the meter to the house.Approx 20 meters.JOB DONE !!!

I contacted the water suppliers who said they would refund the difference in my average usage----very good of them

BUT BUT BUT !!!

The work to repair the leak had to be signedoff by a registered plumber.
I expalined it was an easy fix and had factures for the pipe and fittings to repair but they wernt having it.

The work needs to be signed off by a registered plumber.

Is there any registered plumber out there who would for a small fee be willing to provide a facture for checking the connection at the meter end ?

My property in in Vallee Heureuse, Sorede.

Would be grateful if anyone able to help could PM me.

Thanks

T&B
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mrob343
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Re: plumber help

Post by mrob343 »

TOM AND BARB wrote:Hi,

Have put this in the money section as it applies to my recent water bill.

In the last 6 months I developed a leak on my side of the meter that I have only become aware of when my bill arrived followed immediately by a letter from the water suppliers telling me my usage was abnormally high compared with previous bills. ( 103 cubic meters as opposed to 20 cubic meters)

I immediately identified a leaking supply pipe which was a relatively easy fix.I replaced the whole section of plastic pipe from the meter to the house.Approx 20 meters.JOB DONE !!!

I contacted the water suppliers who said they would refund the difference in my average usage----very good of them

BUT BUT BUT !!!

The work to repair the leak had to be signedoff by a registered plumber.
I expalined it was an easy fix and had factures for the pipe and fittings to repair but they wernt having it.

The work needs to be signed off by a registered plumber.

Is there any registered plumber out there who would for a small fee be willing to provide a facture for checking the connection at the meter end ?

My property in in Vallee Heureuse, Sorede.

Would be grateful if anyone able to help could PM me.

Thanks

T&B
Think you're going to hard pressed to find a plumber that's willing to underwrite someone elses work Tom & Barb ...sorry it does not work like that here.. :? even for a small fee :)
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TOM AND BARB
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Post by TOM AND BARB »

Hi Rob,

I appreciate its a long shot but am not expecting anyone to guarantee my work only to do a drive by and see that the connection is not leaking.(It would take 5 mins max)

There is no expectation of a guarantee or any other expectation come to that.

What is so annoying is that it would be no problem getting a UK qualified plumber to do it as I have 2 in the family and I have done my own water connections to 3 previous properties myself using alkathene pipework and fittings.

Sometimes being in the EU is such a nonsense when a work of UK qualified plumber with 20 years experience including gas connection work to UK standards cannot sign off a simple water connection in France.

I am therefore left with a catch 22 situation. Pay for a french plumber to do the work I easily did myself which in turn generates a bill bigger than any saving for the water bill rebate or just swallow the cost of the water leak.( no pun intended)---a ludicrous situation you have to admit.
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Marguerite & Steve
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Post by Marguerite & Steve »

good luck Tom & Barb.....absolutely ridiculous, surely someone can put their name on a piece of paper with no guarantees attached for Tom & Barb to get a rebate...
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mrob343
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Re: plumber help

Post by mrob343 »

TOM AND BARB wrote:Hi Rob,


I am therefore left with a catch 22 situation. Pay for a french plumber to do the work I easily did myself which in turn generates a bill bigger than any saving for the water bill rebate or just swallow the cost of the water leak.( no pun intended)---a ludicrous situation you have to admit.
Couldn't agree more, :( its one of those crazy "typical french" situations which as always comes down to a signed piece of paper which proves valid in order to make your claim...
Nothing's ever easy ! :roll:
Owens88
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warning: unpopular statement ahead

Post by Owens88 »

I am surprised at the above posts.
So much so that I read them looking for hints of irony.

Is there anybody here that wants to buy a property with signed pieces of certification that mean nothing because they were done on a 'drive-by' for a mate?
John
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TOM AND BARB
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Post by TOM AND BARB »

A few flaws in your comments.

1. The work has been completed to as high a standard as any French registered plumber standards.I have 20 years experience of building and have renovated numerous properties including building from foundations to completion.
It was poor standards of work by the original workmen that caused the problem by not following good building practices.
This is a simple water connection not rocket science.

2.The facture is only to satisfy the water supply company that the work has actually been done.Nobody is really interested in certification or the standard of the work.
After all the cost of any further leak would be at my cost as its my side of the meter so its in my interest to get it right.

The only irony I can see is that French qualified plumber can operate in the UK without the red tape issues but not vice versa.

3. I have no intention of selling my property for many years as I have spent much time,effort and money refurbishing it over the past 4 years and am hopefully going to spend man years enjoying it.

Your comments suggest I am asking for some great scam when all I am hoping for is a rebate for the water I have not used due to the leak and cannot get due to French beaurocracy and red tape.

Hope that clears things up.
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Post by blackduff »

T&B
The French Water people want two things: First, they're trying to get people to use legitimate plumbers instead of black workers. This is required for any special "rebate" from the French authorities. Second, you want the French Water People to give you "free" water your water system lost and then complain that the "Rebate" requires proof.

To have a plumber take the time to find your place and sign-off will cost his time and charges. How much would you give the plumber for arriving to your house and do a quickie? Most artisans will cost at least 50€ to visit your place and a quickie would be another 50€. How much will the cubic meters of water that the Water People will give to you.

In any case, the local plumber is M. Prats. I think he lives in Argeles but he does most of the plumbing in Sorede.

Also: I tried Pages Jaunes but the link didn't work. Look for "plumbier" and put "66690 Sorede" and they will show a few local plumbers.

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Marguerite & Steve
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Re: warning: unpopular statement ahead

Post by Marguerite & Steve »

Owens88 wrote:I am surprised at the above posts.
So much so that I read them looking for hints of irony.

Is there anybody here that wants to buy a property with signed pieces of certification that mean nothing because they were done on a 'drive-by' for a mate?

...I would say the majority of people do their own work when they can, and T&B are talking about a few feet of pipework, so where would the certification come from then?

I myself have had work done by "professional" people in France and their "work" has costs me thousands of euros to put right, you try and get them back and you can't find them they have "moved on", I am then told the responsibility for the work is now mine...
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blackduff
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Post by blackduff »

If the Water People give the money (reduce T&G's bill), I will call them and tell them that my water bill was too high and I want some money too, especially if I didn't have any proof that the work was done.

The Water People are being "nice" and reducing the bill but they don't have to do this. My neighbor had a similar situation and the Water People did give the reduction but the neighbor had a professional plumber from Sorede and there was a facture for the work.

Solar panels are similar. If you want a rebate, it has to been bought and installed by a French company. The small stoves which are fueled with pellets give a rebate too. Same as the solar panel, it has to be bought and installed by a French company. Too the most part, these rebates are put onto your French taxes. If you're not paying taxes in France, tant pis. This is for the French tax payers.

I did my section of pipe too but it happened three times. I didn't get any money from the Water people though. The meter was broken and I didn't have to pay hardly anything for two and a half years. Now I have a zipper driveway so I can fix the line easier.

Blackduff
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Marguerite & Steve
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Post by Marguerite & Steve »

blackduff wrote:If the Water People give the money (reduce T&G's bill), I will call them and tell them that my water bill was too high and I want some money too, especially if I didn't have any proof that the work was done.


Blackduff
T&B proved their water was leaking, not that they are trying to pull a fast one..


If the water people say they would give a refund, that is very good of them, otherwise they are within their rights to say, sorry your problem...
Laugh when you can, apologize when you should, and let go of what you can't change.
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Roger O
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Post by Roger O »

Just to mention that you can get a "Domeo" insurance for about €8 per month for internal/external water problems.
http://www.domeo.fr/ (operated by the water company!)
This would satisfy both conditions

You get the work done (free) by a French professional and "signed off".
If the job done by the (local) professional contracted by Domeo does a bad job, they sack him and get another++.
We have used Domeo services (I'm not a handyman of any kind!) for about 8 years now and been saved about €3,000 euros.

If you get the "max" contact at €10.28 monthly this is included too
Economique : l'eau perdue est remboursée (jusqu'à 1 000 € TTC)
++This happened in Le Soler when our upstairs toilet was leaking and the first guy did a sloppy repair. Domeo sent an inspector (they always do before signing off!) who immediately agreed with us on the problem, hired another plumber to do a (good) job this time - with which they and we were satisfied. We never paid them or anyone else hired by them as local expert a penny other than the monthly premium.

We have no financial interest in Domeo - we are just very happy with their services and feel "secure"!
Last edited by Roger O on Sun 28 Nov 2010 10:18, edited 3 times in total.
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Kathy
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Post by Kathy »

Marguerite & Steve wrote:good luck Tom & Barb.....absolutely ridiculous, surely someone can put their name on a piece of paper with no guarantees attached for Tom & Barb to get a rebate...
My sentiments too.
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Serge

Post by Serge »

Mine too!


Some of the responses on here have been disappointing but not entirely unexpected .......... :roll:
TOM AND BARB
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Post by TOM AND BARB »

Perhaps a few points of clarification for the more judgemental out there.

1 The water company actually wrote to me to tell me the water was abnormal compared with previous usage.
It is also in their interest to conserve water.

2. They offered a rebate without being asked but with the caveat that it had to be undertaken by a registered plumber which negated any potential saving.I suspect this would put most people off as the cost of a plumber would be more than the potential saving.

3. The offer of a rebate was made after the repair work had been completed by myself as it was obviously a matter of some urgency.
Has anyone tried to get a plumber urgently in France (or the UK come to think of it)

4.They would not send out one of their many employees to check the work or the functionality of their meter or PRV.

5 Who would not want to get a rebate when offered by any utility company after all we pay them enough and as far as French tax payer picking up the bill, I think the French tax system is a gross beneficiary from my Tax Fonciere and Habitation considering the amount of time I actually spend at my property whilst renovation work is being undertaken.

6. The work has been completed to as high a standard as any French Plumber.It is in my interest to do so.

7. How is it possible within the EU for restrictive practices to be allowed ?
A French,Polish,German plumber has free unrestricted right to work in the UK and provide estimates, invoices and guarantees for their work yet in France unless you are registered you cannot.
From many postings on the forum the registration of artisans is a joke anyway. It is intended to give credibility and accountability which is a good idea but only if the system works. How many people have had unsatisfactory work done by registered artisans and not had any recall ?

Think I am just going to bite the bullet and put the whole thing down to experience.

Thanks for all the positive contributions.

T&B
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Roger O
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Post by Roger O »

Did anyone mention the fact that work certified by a registered plumber (siret number and as far as I am aware does not have to have French nationality?) affects your insurance cover i.e. if your work did ever "come undone" and there was resultingt water damage normally covered by your insurance, the fact that a repair had been previously done by a 'non-declared source' i.e. the insurance company had not been informed of your repair work in writing or there was no 'official facture' proving it had been done by a registed qualified person, then they would most likely refuse to pay for the damage.

This in no way questions your qualifications to do the work - but I thought of the above as I've just finished wiring and installing a new electric light in our bathroom, which, if it ever shorted out and caused fire damage, would not qualify for insurance refund even though I've done such work scores of times, but am in no way a recognised qualified electrician!!!
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mrob343
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Post by mrob343 »

Roger O wrote:Did anyone mention the fact that work certified by a registered plumber (siret number and as far as I am aware does not have to have French nationality?) affects your insurance cover i.e. if your work did ever "come undone" and there was resultingt water damage normally covered by your insurance, the fact that a repair had been previously done by a 'non-declared source' i.e. the insurance company had not been informed of your repair work in writing or there was no 'official facture' proving it had been done by a registed qualified person, then they would most likely refuse to pay for the damage.

This in no way questions your qualifications to do the work - but I thought of the above as I've just finished wiring and installing a new electric light in our bathroom, which, if it ever shorted out and caused fire damage, would not qualify for insurance refund even though I've done such work scores of times, but am in no way a recognised qualified electrician!!!
Correct Rog ! :(
The system is, to say the least a little bit stupid. You're correct in your assumption that your own installations,should they fail for some reason or another or cause damage,then you would not be covered by your insurance.
My "assurance decinale" is only valid if the client does not try to modify or make an attempt to change my original installation.
It's written in the small print :roll: Very good point ! :wink:
Cheers Rob
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Post by TOM AND BARB »

Hi,

All very interesting and ' very french ' --dealing with pessimistic miniscule detail and 'what ifs'.

Fact : any failure in my work will result in my plants getting an extra dose of water as the installation ends outside the main house and would cause no damage internally

Fact : any loss of water will be at my expense.

Fact : I always turn off the water at the meter every time I leave the house unoccupied.

Fact : My property insurance is with a UK company who specilaise in homes abroad insurance and would probably have no interest in checking who the hell did the work.

Can I put this thread to bed ? Perhaps I was a bit naive to consider listing the question in the first place.

I have decided to forget the whole thing. Its too much hassle and stress.

I will send the water company the facture for the parts I purchased to effect the repair.If that is not good enough for them I will just have to accept the costs and put it down to experience.

Life is too short.
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Post by mrob343 »

TOM AND BARB wrote:Hi,

All very interesting and ' very french ' --dealing with pessimistic miniscule detail and 'what ifs'.

I will send the water company the facture for the parts I purchased to effect the repair.If that is not good enough for them I will just have to accept the costs and put it down to experience.

Life is too short.
Sorry T&B.. just trying to explain this "Very French" rubbish we all have to suffer with every day... :)
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Post by Owens88 »

T&B I wasn't being judgemental or suggesting that you have done a bad job.

But the world is changing. In the UK there is a lot of electrical work you cannot DIY now that you could a few years ago. A tradesman would not 'sign off' a diy piece of work without checking it (and presumably charging for it).
Just as a lawyer wouldn't sign off on a conveyance....

The fact that you were competent in a previous life doesn't seem to cut much ice here either. An electrician has to pay to maintain their registration to allow them to sign-off, a gas engineer.., a plumber etc. No registration - no ability to sign off on things.

You might argue that this is all unnecessary and creating a regimented regime that drives prices up. I might well sympathise.

However I was reacting to a suggestion that a tradesman might sign away on a cursory act of faith. 30 years down the line the housing stock will be safer in general because of regulations.


No insult intended.


John
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Marguerite & Steve
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Post by Marguerite & Steve »

Owens88 wrote:

However I was reacting to a suggestion that a tradesman might sign away on a cursory act of faith.



John
........ :roll: :roll: silly me...
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Santiago
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Post by Santiago »

80 m3 over 6 months is an awful lot of water to be leaking. That's 80,000 lt or 440 lt per day, even if it was a regular leak. I would have thought somebody would have noticed that little stream you must have created. Let's hope it leaked into your swimming pool.
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Post by Roger O »

The reverse side of the "stupid regulations" coin which always bugged me in the UK in a similar type of context is(was) the completely paranoid nanny-state regulations concerning electricity in bathrooms - obviously designed for the very lowest common denominator of intelligence/common sense of bathroom users!

The fuss when we proposed to an electrician to install an electric socket in the bathroom of our house in Swindon (while I was mutated there 1988-90 on behalf of Swissair) was unbelieveable!

All we wanted was to connect up the "normal" Swiss front and back mirror doored bathroom cabinet - of the type shown below - routinely mounted above the wash basin(s) of practically all Swiss bathrooms - with socket(s) for shaver and hairdryer, instead of having to plug in a 10 meter extension cable each morning running from the bedroom along the hall into the bathroom.
ImageImage
No way we could get that done or do it ourselves!!!
Frustration for two years!!!!
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