Contributions Sociale

[Mike]

I heard some time ago, from a reputable French source, that British citizens, resident in France, should not have to pay the Contributions Sociale and that Department 66 was only one of two in France that imposed the tax on British citizens. As I have recently received a demand for payment, the matter returns to mind.

I also understand that it would be possible to apply to the European Court to have the tax annulled as discriminatory against British residents of 66 vis a vis the rest of France. This would probably cost more than any tax refunded though, so we are also at a legal disadvantage!

Does anyone have any definitive information on the subject? Has anyone ever disputed the levy of the tax?

[thumbelina]

I've never heard of this, Mike.

Managed to find this on French Entree

So, will you have to pay these social taxes?
All French tax residents are subject to these taxes, on their declared income and gains. If you are earning a salary, receiving a French pension or have opted for taxation at source of French bank interest, they will be taken at source. For all other income and gains, they will be billed separately in October each year. Non-residents of France should not pay these social taxes.

However, there are various exceptions to the rule:
* If you have income, from another country, which is exempted from French tax, due to a Double Tax Treaty, such as earned income from the UK, a UK Civil Service Pension, or UK rental income, this income should not be taxed.

http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-home/Dis ... sp?ID=9706

and this on The Connexion

http://www.connexionfrance.com/expatria ... p?art=1108

Hope this helps?

Please, do keep us posted!

[Roger O]

We declare my Swiss pension (which is not even from an official EU source) and is my main source of income - and I have never been requested to pay social contributions, either in the PO or in the Aude, though it is considered for income tax purposes.

French pensions, CRAM, CGRCR and IGIRS (cadre) have small social contributions deducted at source. This is provided one reaches a certain minimum taxable total income level per annum.

Of course, Annaïck's (my wife) salary is included in our yearly French income.

[Sue]

We have paid a social charge every year since filling in a french tax form despite being well under the tax threshold!!

[john]

Often,Mike,these "rumours" are based on good old misunderstandings or mishearings. Like Thumbers ,I've never heard of this,and it seems a bit implausible that British people(as opposed to Germans,Danes,Dutch etc resident here),let alone French,should be exempt from social contributions.

Surely with all these things,it depends on a range of variables,such as age,income,tax liability etc,so there is unlikely to be a hard and fast rule.

Like Sue,despite being under the tax threshold,we pay what I consider to be a reasonable charge each year,but as from today (coincidentally !)Mrs john starts to become a UK pensioner,so it remains to be seen what difference that will make when the cotisations are calculated over the summer.

[Sue]

I shall be interested to see what ours are this year too John. I got my state pension for the first time in April of last year along with a very small private pension arising from opting out of SERPS. To date our contribution sociale has been small and acceptable and it is right to put in as well as take out for medicine etc.

[Mike]

Thumbelina, those were very helpful links indeed, thank you. I now have an understanding of how the tax is levied, partly because the "Contributions Sociale" would be more correctly labelled an "Impot Sociale" as it is a tax based on income. as detailed in one's declaration d'impot sur le revenu.

In my case, I am exempted from payment of the tax on my UK state pension as I have submitted an E121. However, my other "pensions" are in fact Purchased Life Annuities, the interest portions of which are declared together with other Interest and share gains etc. Annuities derived from a pension fund should be declared as pensions and not, therefore, subject to the tax. Interest rates are now so low that I look forward to a substantial decrease in next year's payment!

It sometimes takes only a little extra piece of information to aid one's understanding. I suspect that my recollection of the advice from my French source was applied with too broad a brush!

This is a very useful forum and thanks to all contributors who posted in response to my question.

[john]

In my case, I am exempted from payment of the tax on my UK state pension as I have submitted an E121. However, my forum and thanks to all contributors who posted in response to my question.

Apparently the E121 has bee replaced by the S1 . As a matter of interest,Mike how long after submitting your E121 did it take for all the paperwork to be tied up re tax/healthcare between the French and Newcastle authorities ?

The French are not renowned for their swiftness in these matters,but our experience is that they've been like greased lightning in comparison with Newcastle,who seem to work at 2 speeds. Dead slow and stop.

[Mike]

Hi John

It was four years ago now but I can remember thinking how trouble-free the process was on both sides of the Channel. I had been warned by friends that it would take forever and a day but they turned out to be Jeremiahs. I did phone Newcastle with a query and was very impressed with the friendly, rapid response and help I received.

I can't recall how long it took. As I remember, though, the French seemed to take a little longer than expected to transmit the English version of the initial tax change of residence form. Otherwise, I was not unduly worried by the process and found it quite stress-free.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[john]

. I did phone Newcastle with a query and was very impressed with the friendly, rapid response and help I received.

.

I'd certainly agree,Mike that the good folk at Newcastle are friendly,and ,in the main accurately helpful. But ,"rapid" they are not. Almost 3 months to send out some fairly simple document seems excessive to me.