Get ready for Marine
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
Get ready for Marine
If I had a vote here, I would have been getting my head round the idea of voting for François Fillon in the second round of the presidential election, even if through gritted teeth. Now his candidature seems to be blowing up, it's not easy to see why she should lose.
But if she does win, maybe the sterling-franc exchange rate might settle at a rate more favourable to me. Strange days.
But if she does win, maybe the sterling-franc exchange rate might settle at a rate more favourable to me. Strange days.
- Gus Morris
- Rank 5
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Sat 07 Mar 2015 05:45
- Contact:
-
- Rank 3
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Tue 21 Jul 2015 21:47
Get ready for Marine
According to the latest "sondages" Macron is now more or less level with Fillon, and should easily beat Le Pen in the second round (https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d ... se_de_2017). Admittedly opinion polls have not had a good track record recently, although for the second round the margin is high - around 65%-35% - and Macron being something of an outsider may work to his advantage. But given the unpredictability of recent elections worldwide, I'm not holding my breath...
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
Re: Get ready for Marine
Never say that there isn't something for everyone, but I can't say that I'd vote for any of them with a song on my lips. Though it's a bit premature to speculate without knowing what else the Canard might come up with in the next few weeks: maybe Juppé will have to be dragged back into the frame with a suitable show of reluctance. I ought to find Macron attractive, but he gives me the creeps.SteveB wrote:According to the latest "sondages" Macron is now more or less level with Fillon, and should easily beat Le Pen in the second round (https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d ... se_de_2017). Admittedly opinion polls have not had a good track record recently, although for the second round the margin is high - around 65%-35% - and Macron being something of an outsider may work to his advantage. But given the unpredictability of recent elections worldwide, I'm not holding my breath...
- Santiago
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
- Contact:
Macron presents an interesting "breath of fresh air" alternative to big-party politicians but unlike Farage and Trump, he's not on the extreme right. He's popular with young French people.
People accuse him of having no concrete plan but I actually think that's better. Which party keeps to their plans anyway? Better to have a solid philosophy and vision and then plan things as they become important. That's certainly how many successful businesses operate.
I like his idea of having a cross-party cabinet.
People accuse him of having no concrete plan but I actually think that's better. Which party keeps to their plans anyway? Better to have a solid philosophy and vision and then plan things as they become important. That's certainly how many successful businesses operate.
I like his idea of having a cross-party cabinet.
Domaine Treloar - Vineyard and Winery - www.domainetreloar.com - 04 68 95 02 29
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
I agree in principle, but he could not have a more elite CV for someone reckoning to be a breath of fresh air. Jesuit lycée in Lille; "prépa" at the lycée Henri 4 in Paris; Science Po; then ENA. A short period as an inspecteur des finances (you can't hang about if you don't leave school until you're 27). Then made a few million€ wheeling and dealing at Rothschild's. Then a few jobs in ministerial cabinets, then anointed a junior minister, where he produced the "loi Macron": even on a kindly view, the dampest of damp squibs. Admittedly not mostly his fault, and it shows his heart was in more-or-less the right place. But how exactly does a president with no party get things through once the CGT start burning tyres? De Gaulle did it, of course, but he's no De Gaulle, and now is not 1958. This seems to me close to magical thinking, though I understand the appeal.Santiago wrote:Macron presents an interesting "breath of fresh air" alternative to big-party politicians but unlike Farage and Trump, he's not on the extreme right. He's popular with young French people.
People accuse him of having no concrete plan but I actually think that's better. Which party keeps to their plans anyway? Better to have a solid philosophy and vision and then plan things as they become important. That's certainly how many successful businesses operate.
I like his idea of having a cross-party cabinet.
-
- Rank 3
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Tue 21 Jul 2015 21:47
- Santiago
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
- Contact:
I never said Macron was not a member of the elite, but I would not want a President who had not done very well at school, failed to get a decent job and generally been a bit mediocre in their other careers.
The whole idea of "the elite" being a bad thing is a stupid concept which fits perfectly with fake-news, post-truth, anti-expert popularism that is wrecking our societies.
The whole idea of "the elite" being a bad thing is a stupid concept which fits perfectly with fake-news, post-truth, anti-expert popularism that is wrecking our societies.
Domaine Treloar - Vineyard and Winery - www.domainetreloar.com - 04 68 95 02 29
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
I don't think I was taking a crack at Macron, and certainly not at you. My problem, really, was that excellence and expertise in French political life has been concentrated, for many decades, down a very narrow corridor, and has not latterly got us very far. And people who go anywhere beyond that, even in a good way, are met with garlic and crucifixes. Maybe Macron can emancipate himself from that sort of group-think, and maybe - a much bigger maybe - he can mobilise a parliamentary majority (from where, exactly?) to get some serious stuff through. But the smart money says that it will all go tits up once the CGT burn a few truck tyres (or a few spotty lycéens block their lycées, God help us).Santiago wrote:I never said Macron was not a member of the elite, but I would not want a President who had not done very well at school, failed to get a decent job and generally been a bit mediocre in their other careers.
The whole idea of "the elite" being a bad thing is a stupid concept which fits perfectly with fake-news, post-truth, anti-expert popularism that is wrecking our societies.
As it is, he will be immortalized by the "cars Macron" - a few long-distance buses. It's really only in France that this would have seemed remotely interesting, or anyone would have thought that they needed permission.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
I think I've implied that I agree, though you could have added "and a crook" after "Thatcher admirer". But what a choice.SteveB wrote:Maybe in the current political climate the best we can hope for in a leader is that they're not totally outrageous. For me a centrist such as Macron is preferable to a socially conservative pro-Russian Thatcher admirer like Fillon - though either would be preferable to Marine ale Pen.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu 12 Nov 2015 16:47
- Contact:
Couldn't agree with you more, not to mention alternative facts.Santiago wrote:I never said Macron was not a member of the elite, but I would not want a President who had not done very well at school, failed to get a decent job and generally been a bit mediocre in their other careers.
The whole idea of "the elite" being a bad thing is a stupid concept which fits perfectly with fake-news, post-truth, anti-expert popularism that is wrecking our societies.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
Elites are always with us, and they will be top dogs whether we like it or not. The question is how they get there.Santiago wrote:I never said Macron was not a member of the elite, but I would not want a President who had not done very well at school, failed to get a decent job and generally been a bit mediocre in their other careers.
The whole idea of "the elite" being a bad thing is a stupid concept which fits perfectly with fake-news, post-truth, anti-expert popularism that is wrecking our societies.
The problem is that the elite here arise from a rigid process of "social reproduction" (copyright Karl Marx, but one of his better ideas): privileged parents have privileged children who go more-or-less on a conveyor belt through a (long) succession of elite institutions, and then get elite jobs (greased by their "réseaux" among equally-privileged people who have gone the same route).
It's not that they are not clever or hard-working, but that they inevitably have a narrow perspective and a limited mind-set, and that the system just ignores anyone, potentially just as capable, and potentially more empathetic, who doesn't start with the ticket of entry.
Fillon, oddly enough, isn't an énarque (just a highly-qualified lawyer) but his CV fits the bill in other respects. If he had come through a lycée in Seine-St-Denis, he might have realised that he was paying his wife about 5 times what his own parents would have earned on the smic for actually working, and maybe thought it looked a bit iffy.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Tue 02 May 2006 19:09
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu 12 Nov 2015 16:47
- Contact:
I agree, I also have my reservations about the EU but definitely the lesser of two evils compared with Putin, Erdogan, Trump or Boris as Foreign secretary...Webdoc wrote:.......... and replace it with another monster perhaps? I'm no fan of the EU but I fear that the pendulum may swing from one unpalatable extreme to the other.GrahamC wrote:Bring on Marine, so we can finally put an end to the EU monster
Be careful what you wish for.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
I'm sure it's racist and all sorts of other bad things, but we tend to apply higher standards to our old-Etonians than to other people's ex-KGB men. Of the two, it's arguable that Boris has less excuse, but nobody is likely to care enough that it matters.GrahamC wrote:Seriously? You're equating Boris Johnson with Vladimir Putin?
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Sat 25 Oct 2014 21:43
This is serious nutcase territory. Boris is an intelligent, educated articulate democrat. You may not like him, you may sniff at the clowning around he did before he was awarded high office but you cannot in all seriousness equate him with Putin.
Putin is an agressive tyrant, gangster who actively assasinates his political opponents.
You've completely lost the plot Martyn.
Putin is an agressive tyrant, gangster who actively assasinates his political opponents.
You've completely lost the plot Martyn.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu 12 Nov 2015 16:47
- Contact:
Maybe some yoga to calm down?! You have a point that there is a sliding scale here, nevertheless, there is a certain trend for basic/no understanding of math, inflated ego, emotional/thin skin and of course alternative facts. That being said, you are right that Putin is quite a different magnitude, so are Erdogan and Trump.GrahamC wrote:This is serious nutcase territory. Boris is an intelligent, educated articulate democrat. You may not like him, you may sniff at the clowning around he did before he was awarded high office but you cannot in all seriousness equate him with Putin.
Putin is an agressive tyrant, gangster who actively assasinates his political opponents.
You've completely lost the plot Martyn.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
I thought I had made it clear that I entirely agree. For better or worse, we do not expect Russia, or Turkey, or (regrettably) the US to have mature, thoughtful, or liberal politicians: but happily their leaders do not run my native country. My objection to Boris is exactly what GrahamC says in his defence: he is intelligent, educated, articulate, and I guess a democrat of sorts. But still a clown, and our clown.Sus wrote:That being said, you are right that Putin is quite a different magnitude, so are Erdogan and Trump.GrahamC wrote:This is serious nutcase territory. Boris is an intelligent, educated articulate democrat. You may not like him, you may sniff at the clowning around he did before he was awarded high office but you cannot in all seriousness equate him with Putin.
Putin is an agressive tyrant, gangster who actively assasinates his political opponents.
You've completely lost the plot Martyn.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
martyn94 wrote:But still a clown, and our clown.
By way of afterthought, I don't think for a moment that he's just some idiot who cannot keep his mouth shut or his flies zipped up. He's evidently pretty relaxed about both, but not at all just by accident. He had an acute judgment about what would go down with provincial Conservative associations ("not a dry seat in the house", as the saying goes). Until suddenly he didn't have enough support to see off the vicar's daughter: but for how long, once she blows it?
- Santiago
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
- Contact:
I do find it rather laughable that anyone who is a member of this forum would be keen on both France and Britain leaving the EU. It displays a unique lack of understanding and blinkered view of what the EU does.
Domaine Treloar - Vineyard and Winery - www.domainetreloar.com - 04 68 95 02 29
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat 23 Jul 2016 22:27
The best arguement I heard for the EU was by the speech made by the first head of the European Central Bank , Rolf Dussenburg (I'm not sure about the spelling here), when he stepped down. He has since died. Broadly speaking : the long history of European wars and the need to create a way of working and living together so that we never relive this history . I'll see if I can find a link to this + check spelling.
I know more than one Brit living here who voted to leave . Very odd logic .
I know more than one Brit living here who voted to leave . Very odd logic .
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 2086
- Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013 14:37
But I'm not sure that "never again" has that sort of resonance in the U.K. My old dad went through the last one and came away with a strong aversion to camping, or even picnics, but no particular dread of European war, so long as we won.Phip3 wrote:The best arguement I heard for the EU was by the speech made by the first head of the European Central Bank , Rolf Dussenburg (I'm not sure about the spelling here), when he stepped down. He has since died. Broadly speaking : the long history of European wars and the need to create a way of working and living together so that we never relive this history . I'll see if I can find a link to this + check spelling.
I know more than one Brit living here who voted to leave . Very odd logic .