House selling

Hooray henry · Post by **Hooray henry** » Tue 02 Jun 2009 10:50

I am in the process of selling and the purchasers have just had their mortgage agreed. I was told I would have to wait 12 weeks after the completetion date to receive the funds. Is this true?

polremy · Post by **polremy** » Tue 02 Jun 2009 10:54

Hooray henry wrote:I am in the process of selling and the purchasers have just had their mortgage agreed. I was told I would have to wait 12 weeks after the completetion date to receive the funds. Is this true?

is this in England or France?

Hooray henry · Post by **Hooray henry** » Tue 02 Jun 2009 10:59

France

franglaise · Post by **franglaise** » Tue 02 Jun 2009 11:12

You receive payment for the sale of your house on the same day as you and the buyer sign the 'acte authentique' at the notaire. Normally it takes about 2 months between the time the buyer receives his offer of mortgage (which renders the 'condition suspensive' void and means the buyer cannot withdraw from the purchase using this excuse) and the signature of the acte authentique. If you push the notary and the buyer agrees it can take less.

carol sheridan · Post by **carol sheridan** » Wed 03 Jun 2009 07:59

I think the notaire has to make sure that all taxes have been paid, but I didn't have to pay any capital gains on the sale of my house as it had been my sole residence for three years, so I got the full amount within a week, into my French bank account.
What took the time was getting the deeds after I bought the house - this can take months and I had to remind the notaire several times before they arrived.

Hooray henry · Post by **Hooray henry** » Wed 24 Jun 2009 10:16

I was told by the notaire that I would have to pay CG tax as although this is my principle residence i am a UK tax resident. Is this correct?

john · Post by **john** » Wed 24 Jun 2009 10:25

Hooray henry wrote:I was told by the notaire that I would have to pay CG tax as although this is my principle residence i am a UK tax resident. Is this correct?

If you are a foreigner and you can prove that this is your main (sole?) residence in France then there should be no Fr Plusvalue (Cap Gains) to pay. Whether you have to pay UK CGT;well that depends on your arrangements with the taxman there.

carol sheridan · Post by **carol sheridan** » Wed 24 Jun 2009 10:32

I am puzzled - surely your residency is where your principal residence is? How can you be resident in the UK and have your principal residence in France? Are you a UK MP? They are very good at organising their affairs to avoid CGT.

john · Post by **john** » Wed 24 Jun 2009 10:42

Hope you are not suggesting that Henry is indulging in a little "flipping",Carol?!

Hooray henry · Post by **Hooray henry** » Wed 24 Jun 2009 17:49

I have a business in the UK but not a home, and this is where I earn my income and pay my tax. On my return i stay with my mother

polremy · Post by **polremy** » Wed 24 Jun 2009 18:21

Now that the weather has changed, perhaps you will rethink and stay here!!!

Hooray henry · Post by **Hooray henry** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 08:02

If there was any money here I would. Sunshine doesn't feed the family...

carol sheridan · Post by **carol sheridan** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 08:08

It seems to me (as a retired tax inspector) that you are non-resident in the UK but have a business there. You can't choose residency - it is a simple matter of fact - how many days, excluding days of arrival and departure, do you spend in the UK in a tax year? If it is more than 183, you are resident. If you do spend more than 183 days in the UK, the fact that you have a home in France is irrelevant - it is just your second home. Living with your mother counts as having accommodation available - you could even be classed as resident if you spent 200 days in an hotel. It is how long, not where, that matters.
Of course, there is no law against trying to arrange your affairs to minimuse tax liability - that is avoidance (legal), not evasion (illegal) but I think you might be wise to get some informed advice, either from a tax consultant in the UK or any Tax Enquiry Office, or on line. Perhaps the law has changed since I retired in 1999!

Roger O · Post by **Roger O** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 08:51

carol sheridan wrote:Of course, there is no law against trying to arrange your affairs to minimuse tax liability - that is avoidance (legal), not evasion (illegal) but I think you might be wise to get some informed advice, either from a tax consultant in the UK or any Tax Enquiry Office, or on line.

Carol - I love that word "minimuse" - a nice combination of minimise and misuse!!!
Is it now officially in the parliamentary dictionary??

Hope you are well!!
Roger

john · Post by **john** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 09:18

When I looked into this a few years ago,the answer was broadly as Carol states.

The tax you pay on your business activities and your personal tax liability are two TOTALLY separate things.

So qed,if ,Henry,your business is in the UK,you'll pay tax on it there. If you spend more than 183 days resident here in France,you'll pay your personal tax (all income) here.

I still cannot see why,however,if this house has been your principal residence for the last 3 yrs,why you'll need to pay plusvalue on it.

polremy · Post by **polremy** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 09:53

Will there in fact be any plusvalue?
I thought property had gone down in value over the past year, cancelling out any increase in value over the previous two.

john · Post by **john** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 09:58

Good point PR. I suppose it depends how long he's had it.

rbg · Post by **rbg** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 10:42

[quote="Roger OCarol - I love that word "minimuse" - a nice combination of minimise and misuse!!!
Is it now officially in the parliamentary dictionary??

Roger[/quote]

Tax evasion and tax avoidance are two very different things!

john · Post by **john** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 10:44

carol sheridan wrote: Of course, there is no law against trying to arrange your affairs to minimuse tax liability - that is avoidance (legal), not evasion (illegal) but I think you might be wise to get some informed advice, either from a tax consultant in the UK or any Tax Enquiry Office, or on line. Perhaps the law has changed since I retired in 1999!

To be fair rbg,Carol has already tried her best to point this out to Henry!

carol sheridan · Post by **carol sheridan** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 11:22

Yes, Roger, I rather like the result of my typo!

I am still working hard caring for the family - and trying to keep my two grandsons (aged 25 and 18) fed! They appear to need sustenance every wo hours!

polremy · Post by **polremy** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 11:34

carol sheridan wrote:Yes, Roger, I rather like the result of my typo!

I am still working hard caring for the family - and trying to keep my two grandsons (aged 25 and 18) fed! They appear to need sustenance every wo hours!

I think all men are the same!
Very short list of regular needs and food is very close to the top.

Hooray henry · Post by **Hooray henry** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 12:06

Back on topic. I have just spoken to the notaire and he is adamant that I will have to pay the liabillity. In fact they're holding onto more until they verify that I have paid my tax in the EEC!

rbg · Post by **rbg** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 12:23

I'd get a second opinion .. are there two notaries invloved in the sale? What does the other notary have to say?
If it is your PPR, and you can prove this, there should be no CGT payable.

Hooray henry · Post by **Hooray henry** » Thu 25 Jun 2009 13:38

Thank you all for your advice.

I have just spoken to Robert Anthony at Anthony and Cie, International tax and property planning. He said that this was quite normal for the notaire to think that I should pay a liability, but it is fact incorrect.

I will instruct him and let you know the outcome.

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