electric central heating boiler
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TOM AND BARB
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electric central heating boiler
Hello,
We have a dilemma about what heating system to install in our property in our property not far from the coast. As most of you know, heating is only really needed for a few months of the year, the rest of the time its just hot water thats needed.
We have panel heaters and a immersion hot water storage tank at the moment which prove to be quite expensive to run.
I have just been told about electric central heating boilers that operate on low tarif overnight electric to build up the water supply overnight and operate on a boost during the day to run a conventional wet central heating system.
I would consider then linking it to solar panels.
They look relatively easy to install so would envisage doing it myself.
These are relatively new in the UK ( well at least to me they are) but there are quite a few well known manufacturers making them.
Does anyone out there currently use one of these systems in France. ?
Are they available in France or would I have to bring one form the UK. ?
If they are available in France, where could I buy one ?
Would they be cheaper just across the border in Spain ?
Thanks
We have a dilemma about what heating system to install in our property in our property not far from the coast. As most of you know, heating is only really needed for a few months of the year, the rest of the time its just hot water thats needed.
We have panel heaters and a immersion hot water storage tank at the moment which prove to be quite expensive to run.
I have just been told about electric central heating boilers that operate on low tarif overnight electric to build up the water supply overnight and operate on a boost during the day to run a conventional wet central heating system.
I would consider then linking it to solar panels.
They look relatively easy to install so would envisage doing it myself.
These are relatively new in the UK ( well at least to me they are) but there are quite a few well known manufacturers making them.
Does anyone out there currently use one of these systems in France. ?
Are they available in France or would I have to bring one form the UK. ?
If they are available in France, where could I buy one ?
Would they be cheaper just across the border in Spain ?
Thanks
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blackduff
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Sat 30 Dec 2006 11:32
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About a month ago, in the Total France forum, there was a thread about solar panels and house heating in the winter. The final post said that solar panel is great for heating the hot water but the house doesn't need this electricity from the panel.
In the winter times, there's not enough sun to produce electricity of heating a house.
You could root through the Total France and you might find this post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Overall heating in the PO, I find that one method today might not be the particular heating tomorrow. About ten years back my neighbor took out his electrical panels and installed big butane tank and a system to heat with this butane gas. Now, I just read an article about heating costs in France, the butane is the highest cost of heating for a house. Electicity is now on the low cost choice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Putting solar panels for heating water is expensive, if you have a installer put this system. But, if you're on the French tax system, you can get a big rebate from the tax people. These reductions can be to 50% of the cost. So buying something in the UK, haul it to France, and then put this onto the rood yourself may be not cost effective. I have heard that this rebate may stop in 2009.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This year might be the best method for heating but next year's choice might be better.
Blackduff
In the winter times, there's not enough sun to produce electricity of heating a house.
You could root through the Total France and you might find this post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Overall heating in the PO, I find that one method today might not be the particular heating tomorrow. About ten years back my neighbor took out his electrical panels and installed big butane tank and a system to heat with this butane gas. Now, I just read an article about heating costs in France, the butane is the highest cost of heating for a house. Electicity is now on the low cost choice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Putting solar panels for heating water is expensive, if you have a installer put this system. But, if you're on the French tax system, you can get a big rebate from the tax people. These reductions can be to 50% of the cost. So buying something in the UK, haul it to France, and then put this onto the rood yourself may be not cost effective. I have heard that this rebate may stop in 2009.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This year might be the best method for heating but next year's choice might be better.
Blackduff
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TOM AND BARB
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- Joined: Tue 18 Jul 2006 18:35
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Electric central heating
Hello Blackduff,
Thanks very much for the reply.
I'm sorry , perhaps I didnt make my posting very clear.
The mention of solar panels was just a side issue, - a possible an addition.
My main query was regarding a recent development in wet central heating boilers.
In the Uk, it is now possible to buy electric central heating boilers that use cheap electricity at night to heat the hot water and heat a conventional wet central heating system ( with radiators).
My query was if the same systems are available in France and if anyone had any experience about their use an efficiency.
Thanks
PS . I am not a tax resident so it is often still cheaper to bring things across from the UK as the UK market is often far more competitive in certain areas and many of the French Tax incentives insist on installation by 'professionals' who's labour charges often far outstrip any tax saving.
Thanks very much for the reply.
I'm sorry , perhaps I didnt make my posting very clear.
The mention of solar panels was just a side issue, - a possible an addition.
My main query was regarding a recent development in wet central heating boilers.
In the Uk, it is now possible to buy electric central heating boilers that use cheap electricity at night to heat the hot water and heat a conventional wet central heating system ( with radiators).
My query was if the same systems are available in France and if anyone had any experience about their use an efficiency.
Thanks
PS . I am not a tax resident so it is often still cheaper to bring things across from the UK as the UK market is often far more competitive in certain areas and many of the French Tax incentives insist on installation by 'professionals' who's labour charges often far outstrip any tax saving.
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Roger O
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Up in the mountains, they use the old method.
Install your cattle, sheep and goats in the basement below your living room and you'll have no heating problems..
Make sure there is no air circulation between the two levels, or buy some cheap clothespegs from the next passing gens de voyage!!
"Green" heating element
http://bostonist.com/attachments/boston ... 8-goat.jpg
Additional income
Instead of installing solar panels and selling the excess to EDF you collect the methane - some of which you use for gas mantle lighting - and sell the excess to your local garage who converts it to GPL.
Install your cattle, sheep and goats in the basement below your living room and you'll have no heating problems..
Make sure there is no air circulation between the two levels, or buy some cheap clothespegs from the next passing gens de voyage!!
"Green" heating element
http://bostonist.com/attachments/boston ... 8-goat.jpg
Additional income
Instead of installing solar panels and selling the excess to EDF you collect the methane - some of which you use for gas mantle lighting - and sell the excess to your local garage who converts it to GPL.
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blackduff
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Owens88
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we've done it
Well mostly.
We have electric boiler feeding a wet system.
Background: the old oil boiler was shot, replacement expensive and by getting rid of the oil tank we gained a large tank.
It works well though there were initial teething problems with the amount of electricity being supplied and also the village water pressure.
We haven't gone the overnight cheap tariff route. Ours is a holiday place so it is difficult to put a finger on best tariffs. I would if I lived there all year round. However the bills don't seem to bad.
Along with the electric boiler came a programmer far more sophisticated than anything I see here in UK.
1) temperature controlled by time of day (even overnight, and lunchtimes !) and by day
2) lots of options even (if my french is correct) 'I am throwing a sickie Monday, lets pretend its sunday' and a 'we've got visitors lets warm up'
Good luck
John
We have electric boiler feeding a wet system.
Background: the old oil boiler was shot, replacement expensive and by getting rid of the oil tank we gained a large tank.
It works well though there were initial teething problems with the amount of electricity being supplied and also the village water pressure.
We haven't gone the overnight cheap tariff route. Ours is a holiday place so it is difficult to put a finger on best tariffs. I would if I lived there all year round. However the bills don't seem to bad.
Along with the electric boiler came a programmer far more sophisticated than anything I see here in UK.
1) temperature controlled by time of day (even overnight, and lunchtimes !) and by day
2) lots of options even (if my french is correct) 'I am throwing a sickie Monday, lets pretend its sunday' and a 'we've got visitors lets warm up'
Good luck
John
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TOM AND BARB
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heating
Hi JJ
Have replied.
Have replied.
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TOM AND BARB
- Rank 3
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Tue 18 Jul 2006 18:35
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heating
Hi John ( Owens88)
Have replied via PM.
Have replied via PM.
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Owens88
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Tiffany
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blackduff
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Tiffany and T&B
This year my electricity will be 1,879 €. I expect that my heating costs will be about 25% of the amount. Roughly my heating will be for 500 €.
I use wood too. My four stere cost me 268 €
In Sorede it does get cold a bit but in my opinion, I don't need full-time heat. I turn on a heater in the bathroom for about 15 minutes when I bath. The rest of the day the bathroom isn't specifically heated. Same for my bedroom. I warm the room before jumping into the bed. If it's very cold, I will turn the heater a bit low.
There is a small heater in the dining room and a bit also in the kitchen.
That's it. There isn't any heaters running upstairs (three large bedrooms and a bathroom), since the heat lifted to this area.
So, for my house, I don't need a full time boiler, even though it's a low rate electicity. I think that the more northern section of France, using full time boilers. Maybe some of the other posters here can give their information.
Blackduff
This year my electricity will be 1,879 €. I expect that my heating costs will be about 25% of the amount. Roughly my heating will be for 500 €.
I use wood too. My four stere cost me 268 €
In Sorede it does get cold a bit but in my opinion, I don't need full-time heat. I turn on a heater in the bathroom for about 15 minutes when I bath. The rest of the day the bathroom isn't specifically heated. Same for my bedroom. I warm the room before jumping into the bed. If it's very cold, I will turn the heater a bit low.
There is a small heater in the dining room and a bit also in the kitchen.
That's it. There isn't any heaters running upstairs (three large bedrooms and a bathroom), since the heat lifted to this area.
So, for my house, I don't need a full time boiler, even though it's a low rate electicity. I think that the more northern section of France, using full time boilers. Maybe some of the other posters here can give their information.
Blackduff
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Kathy
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Well we paid last year €760 for electricity which I thought for approx 10/12 weeks use is dear. After looking at Blackduff's costs maybe not! We are all electric like T&B so have not much choice. We are sensible with the heaters but I think our hot water tank is the main culprit for high costs even though it is set to come on during Heures Creuses but I can see why T&B are looking at alternatives.
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Santiago
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It did seem a bit odd that information that looked useful to everyone started getting sent by PM when lots of other comments more suitable to a PM are broadcast.
I'm not convinced that installing a wet central heating system yourself is a piece of cake. It may also be against the rules. I certainly wouldn't fancy buying a house with a DIY central heating system installed.
Going for a split rate electricity deal may not suit you if you aren't here all the time as the monthly tariff is higher than normal.
There are different standards of electric panel heaters. Some are more efficient than others. Replacing the panels and the immersion heater wither better models may do the trick.
I don't think solar panels are worth buying unless you get the tax rebate. The payback only kicks in after 11 years full-time use and the panels have a lifespan of around 15 years.
I'm not convinced that installing a wet central heating system yourself is a piece of cake. It may also be against the rules. I certainly wouldn't fancy buying a house with a DIY central heating system installed.
Going for a split rate electricity deal may not suit you if you aren't here all the time as the monthly tariff is higher than normal.
There are different standards of electric panel heaters. Some are more efficient than others. Replacing the panels and the immersion heater wither better models may do the trick.
I don't think solar panels are worth buying unless you get the tax rebate. The payback only kicks in after 11 years full-time use and the panels have a lifespan of around 15 years.
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Tiffany
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Thanks, Blackduff for bringing the discussion back, goodness knows why PM's started flying around. Your elec does sound expensive.
We have just had reversible a/c fitted, so will be watching our bills with interest. They take the calories out of the air and produce x times more heat/cooling than they take out of the air somehow. V. friendly and efficient - according to the blurb. And as someone who has to live in a greenhouse, they keep me quiet with the heat produced. Also we get 50% of the fitting back through a credit d'impot. However, this is more of a bonus than anything else as you don't get it back until the end of the tax year, and then you have to pay 200€ to have someone round to verify it........you've forgotten all about the money by the time it happens!
We have just had reversible a/c fitted, so will be watching our bills with interest. They take the calories out of the air and produce x times more heat/cooling than they take out of the air somehow. V. friendly and efficient - according to the blurb. And as someone who has to live in a greenhouse, they keep me quiet with the heat produced. Also we get 50% of the fitting back through a credit d'impot. However, this is more of a bonus than anything else as you don't get it back until the end of the tax year, and then you have to pay 200€ to have someone round to verify it........you've forgotten all about the money by the time it happens!
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Tiffany
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Owens88
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I have no secrets
I merely replied to a pm with a pm. Here goes the repeat for terrestrial TV..............................
Mostly from memory..
We were offered two different types of electric boiler, one from a Belgian chap making forays into France. T'other was a quote from our local electrician !
It might be better if I explain the situation. We already had the wet system but no 'chaudiere'. I got fed up of the ridiculous quotes for a replacement oil 'chaudiere'. I had the electrician to quote for mixture of radiants and convectors (all thermostatically controlled and can even be equipped with timers and even set to respond to a master if you want). There were some possible advantages to the single units and if I didn't already have the wet system I would have gone that way, mixture of radiants and convectors augmented by a storage heater or two and a split aircon/air heat pump (now going cheap).
Anyhow amidst all the considerations we had heard of the belgian but he was a bit light on detail when we probed (a bit too much of the 'trust me..'). However our French village electrician (who had already researched and quoted for the single units, bless him) was happy to fit an electric boiler to the wet system instead (c'est muy douce..' ).
7-14kw power CHAUDIERE ZAEGEL HELD ELECTRA
We already had 'just' enough electricity (puissance 12 kw) though the electrician has pointed out that we haven't always been getting the voltage we should.
As an aside picture me, on the mobile phone, talking yorkshire french and persuading edf that our voltage was too low. They even sent a man round to check !
----
What follows is only my opinion. We have solar in the UK but not in France.
1) In france you can get tax relief for installing solar, and get an EDF gurantee of effectiveness and surplus buy-back. But you have to be a tax payer.
2) The way to combine different energy sources is to have one combined heat store and run heat outputs off of it (or in fact through it). My friends in UK who are doing this liken the combined storage system to the french 'pressure stored' cylinder. However that doesn't mean it is the same as..
3) Repeating the above. I wouldn't retrofit a wet system in an old place by choice. It was already there for me.
4|) If I was engaging in new build (even an extension) I would now always look to under-floor rather than radiator, particularly if drawing from lower level energy sources.
Also see the aircon/heater splits as above.
Hope that helps.
John
_________________
John
www.Goodviews.co.uk
Vernet Les Bains and East Midlands
Mostly from memory..
We were offered two different types of electric boiler, one from a Belgian chap making forays into France. T'other was a quote from our local electrician !
It might be better if I explain the situation. We already had the wet system but no 'chaudiere'. I got fed up of the ridiculous quotes for a replacement oil 'chaudiere'. I had the electrician to quote for mixture of radiants and convectors (all thermostatically controlled and can even be equipped with timers and even set to respond to a master if you want). There were some possible advantages to the single units and if I didn't already have the wet system I would have gone that way, mixture of radiants and convectors augmented by a storage heater or two and a split aircon/air heat pump (now going cheap).
Anyhow amidst all the considerations we had heard of the belgian but he was a bit light on detail when we probed (a bit too much of the 'trust me..'). However our French village electrician (who had already researched and quoted for the single units, bless him) was happy to fit an electric boiler to the wet system instead (c'est muy douce..' ).
7-14kw power CHAUDIERE ZAEGEL HELD ELECTRA
We already had 'just' enough electricity (puissance 12 kw) though the electrician has pointed out that we haven't always been getting the voltage we should.
As an aside picture me, on the mobile phone, talking yorkshire french and persuading edf that our voltage was too low. They even sent a man round to check !
----
What follows is only my opinion. We have solar in the UK but not in France.
1) In france you can get tax relief for installing solar, and get an EDF gurantee of effectiveness and surplus buy-back. But you have to be a tax payer.
2) The way to combine different energy sources is to have one combined heat store and run heat outputs off of it (or in fact through it). My friends in UK who are doing this liken the combined storage system to the french 'pressure stored' cylinder. However that doesn't mean it is the same as..
3) Repeating the above. I wouldn't retrofit a wet system in an old place by choice. It was already there for me.
4|) If I was engaging in new build (even an extension) I would now always look to under-floor rather than radiator, particularly if drawing from lower level energy sources.
Also see the aircon/heater splits as above.
Hope that helps.
John
_________________
John
www.Goodviews.co.uk
Vernet Les Bains and East Midlands
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Roger O
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Owens88
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blackduff
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In Sweden there's a lot of homes heated with the earth pumps.
http://www.bosch-thermotechnology.com/s ... hp/2326481
When I lived in Sweden, my home had hot water fed from the local electrical generation turbines. This hot water fed across all of the city and when it arrived in my house, I would convert this through a exchanger. I had two systems inside the house. One system was the hot water for baths, etc.. The second system was a locked system which passed through all of the wall radiators.
There was thermoneters showing the incoming and outgoing of the temps at the house. Swedes managed to pull out each calorie in the water passed their house. Finally the city people started to tax the calories from each home, rather than just the gallons of hot water.
Overall, this was a very efficient heating system. Plus, it was pretty cheap.
Blackduff
http://www.bosch-thermotechnology.com/s ... hp/2326481
When I lived in Sweden, my home had hot water fed from the local electrical generation turbines. This hot water fed across all of the city and when it arrived in my house, I would convert this through a exchanger. I had two systems inside the house. One system was the hot water for baths, etc.. The second system was a locked system which passed through all of the wall radiators.
There was thermoneters showing the incoming and outgoing of the temps at the house. Swedes managed to pull out each calorie in the water passed their house. Finally the city people started to tax the calories from each home, rather than just the gallons of hot water.
Overall, this was a very efficient heating system. Plus, it was pretty cheap.
Blackduff
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renewable
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Hi all,
Million appologies for using this as a blatant opportunity to promote our business but:-
If anyone wants to know more about solar heating, heat pumps, selling electricity to EDF, tax and grants etc send an email to - info@RenewableEnergyFrance.com
I'm always pleased to help and only trying to get ourselves known!
Best regards,
Nigel.
http://www.RenewableEnergyFrance.com/
http://www.mysolarshop.eu
Million appologies for using this as a blatant opportunity to promote our business but:-
If anyone wants to know more about solar heating, heat pumps, selling electricity to EDF, tax and grants etc send an email to - info@RenewableEnergyFrance.com
I'm always pleased to help and only trying to get ourselves known!
Best regards,
Nigel.
http://www.RenewableEnergyFrance.com/
http://www.mysolarshop.eu
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Anniseed
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Central Heating
Hello
I was wondering what decision you arrived at with your heating system? we have a similar dilema, bottled gas at present , but have been advised that electric might be a better option, have you looked into heat pumps? not sure if the initial outlay would be too expensive, or the longer term would be cost effective?
I was wondering what decision you arrived at with your heating system? we have a similar dilema, bottled gas at present , but have been advised that electric might be a better option, have you looked into heat pumps? not sure if the initial outlay would be too expensive, or the longer term would be cost effective?